It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:43 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
New season 
Author Message
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: New season
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


No, I want to be sure of liquidity and a going concern, without which failure beckons.

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:43 pm
Profile
Online
thread ruining clique
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 18887
Location: Dinbych
Post Re: New season
I would think anybody putting money into Welsh rugby and expecting to make a profit should go see a psychiatrist. Or at least a financial adviser.

_________________
I have no *fupping* idea what I'm talking about.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:39 pm
Profile
World XV Player

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 3327
Post Re: New season
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


That is an interesting point and feel sport in general is not a purely commercial excerise.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:06 pm
Profile E-mail
Online
thread ruining clique
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 18887
Location: Dinbych
Post Re: New season
There are other aspects than cash. The idea of sitting in the stand with the crowd chanting your name, even though you were shit at sport as a child, must always be factored in.

_________________
I have no *fupping* idea what I'm talking about.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:29 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 60013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


No, I want to be sure of liquidity and a going concern, without which failure beckons.


That is so out of touch with modern pro sports..I have banked several NBA and MLB teams and talked to owners...
This Dickensian attitude went out 25 years ago.

As long as there are no secured creditors, it does not make much difference what the financials look like and how liquidity is there as long as the Directors/Owners are there writing checks.

_________________
We are all in the gutter but me and my mam are looking at the stars!


Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:09 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 60013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post Re: New season
spinbreath wrote:
There are other aspects than cash. The idea of sitting in the stand with the crowd chanting your name, even though you were shit at sport as a child, must always be factored in.


Plus having millionaire players rub shoulders with you ;)

_________________
We are all in the gutter but me and my mam are looking at the stars!


Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:10 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: New season
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


No, I want to be sure of liquidity and a going concern, without which failure beckons.


That is so out of touch with modern pro sports..I have banked several NBA and MLB teams and talked to owners...
This Dickensian attitude went out 25 years ago.

As long as there are no secured creditors, it does not make much difference what the financials look like and how liquidity is there as long as the Directors/Owners are there writing checks.


My comment related specifically to Scarlets.

You should know that I am generally talking about entrepreneurial investment in rugby and NOT sugar daddies.
I have detailed specific examples where the immediate bottom line performance of the rugby aspect dwarfs the
overall benefit both business and profit overall.

I have cited specific examples of Racing, Montpelier, Stade Francais, Bordeaux, Saracens where this is the case and with detailed examples ..I have also detailed failures where those not realising the modern concept of Pro Sport can quickly begin to fail cue Toulouse.

I resent the comment insinuating I have a Dickensian attitude and experience.

Incidentally there are currently clubs throughout the leagues that have gone and are going to the wall by ignoring so called 'Dickensian' aspects of simple accounting and basic audit. Note your comment 'As long as there are Directors ets paying the checks ... ;) Hmmm..

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:28 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 5970
Post Re: New season
^^^^^^^^^^
what those guys said

:bom: :alien: :bom:


Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:26 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


No, I want to be sure of liquidity and a going concern, without which failure beckons.


That is so out of touch with modern pro sports..I have banked several NBA and MLB teams and talked to owners...
This Dickensian attitude went out 25 years ago.

As long as there are no secured creditors, it does not make much difference what the financials look like and how liquidity is there as long as the Directors/Owners are there writing checks.


My comment related specifically to Scarlets.

You should know that I am generally talking about entrepreneurial investment in rugby and NOT sugar daddies.
I have detailed specific examples where the immediate bottom line performance of the rugby aspect dwarfs the
overall benefit both business and profit overall.

I have cited specific examples of Racing, Montpelier, Stade Francais, Bordeaux, Saracens where this is the case and with detailed examples ..I have also detailed failures where those not realising the modern concept of Pro Sport can quickly begin to fail cue Toulouse.

I resent the comment insinuating I have a Dickensian attitude and experience.

Incidentally there are currently clubs throughout the leagues that have gone and are going to the wall by ignoring so called 'Dickensian' aspects of simple accounting and basic audit. Note your comment 'As long as there are Directors ets paying the checks ... ;) Hmmm..


++


Having thought further on the above .... it should be remembered that we are talking about rugby and it's infancy as a Pro Sport.

David when you are talking about some US Pro Sports that's a different league, we might also discuss footy where PSG has just paid £200m for a player, not really about the player of the club per se ... more about the Qatari ownership and their intent and prime objective to propagate their country's position in Sport and in the World. Qatar also have one of the worlds finest handball teams with 'recruited' players! ....

Comparing apples, oranges and pears achieves very little when such different dimensions are mentioned.
Pro Rugby is bread and butter at the mo but moving swiftly and I for one hope that the footy pathway is not followed but it probably will be, some entrepreneurs already in the business?

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:33 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 am
Posts: 11529
Location: Neath Valley
Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


No, I want to be sure of liquidity and a going concern, without which failure beckons.


That is so out of touch with modern pro sports..I have banked several NBA and MLB teams and talked to owners...
This Dickensian attitude went out 25 years ago.

As long as there are no secured creditors, it does not make much difference what the financials look like and how liquidity is there as long as the Directors/Owners are there writing checks.


My comment related specifically to Scarlets.

You should know that I am generally talking about entrepreneurial investment in rugby and NOT sugar daddies.
I have detailed specific examples where the immediate bottom line performance of the rugby aspect dwarfs the
overall benefit both business and profit overall.

I have cited specific examples of Racing, Montpelier, Stade Francais, Bordeaux, Saracens where this is the case and with detailed examples ..I have also detailed failures where those not realising the modern concept of Pro Sport can quickly begin to fail cue Toulouse.

I resent the comment insinuating I have a Dickensian attitude and experience.

Incidentally there are currently clubs throughout the leagues that have gone and are going to the wall by ignoring so called 'Dickensian' aspects of simple accounting and basic audit. Note your comment 'As long as there are Directors ets paying the checks ... ;) Hmmm..


++


Having thought further on the above .... it should be remembered that we are talking about rugby and it's infancy as a Pro Sport.

David when you are talking about some US Pro Sports that's a different league, we might also discuss footy where PSG has just paid £200m for a player, not really about the player of the club per se ... more about the Qatari ownership and their intent and prime objective to propagate their country's position in Sport and in the World. Qatar also have one of the worlds finest handball teams with 'recruited' players! ....

Comparing apples, oranges and pears achieves very little when such different dimensions are mentioned.
Pro Rugby is bread and butter at the mo but moving swiftly and I for one hope that the footy pathway is not followed but it probably will be, some entrepreneurs already in the business?




What alternative evolution exists to the "footy pathway", it somethign we should be fighting against, but im not sure what we should be fighting for :?:

_________________
"Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!”
“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:25 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: New season
Blindside wrote:
[
a

What alternative evolution exists to the "footy pathway", it somethign we should be fighting against, but im not sure what we should be fighting for :?:


Good Q BS!

A key aspect is for countries to preserve strict rules on foreign imports

World Rugby have to recognise and participate with the the burgeoning Club initiatives probably in the Conference set up direction.

Confrontation is ill advised, cue recent set to's

The obvious danger is the franglais and if SA form an affinity that's even more dangerous. FFR seem to be trying to wrestle back control from clubs, RFU seem comfortable with relations, SA have conflicts and ultimately busness advantage will be the decider.

S Hemp and especially NZ should position themselves early in current N Hemp 'Internstional underlay' initiatives and not rest on self sufficiency. The S Hemp overall position is weak in terms of their harmony and again SA is key to that.

I fear that it is already too late, animosity exists between Union and 'Clubb' and World Rugby lethargy in resolving and promoting w/wide timetable was a big mistake.

The big backers are already in and the 'transfer market' is already hot. and the likes of EPCR are already in the van.

Media are drivers and they'll go with the easier route to the expansion of the game....curently below international level.

It's now a case of limitation

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:02 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 am
Posts: 11529
Location: Neath Valley
Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
[
a

What alternative evolution exists to the "footy pathway", it somethign we should be fighting against, but im not sure what we should be fighting for :?:


Good Q BS!

A key aspect is for countries to preserve strict rules on foreign imports

World Rugby have to recognise and participate with the the burgeoning Club initiatives probably in the Conference set up direction.

Confrontation is ill advised, cue recent set to's

The obvious danger is the franglais and if SA form an affinity that's even more dangerous. FFR seem to be trying to wrestle back control from clubs, RFU seem comfortable with relations, SA have conflicts and ultimately busness advantage will be the decider.

S Hemp and especially NZ should position themselves early in current N Hemp 'Internstional underlay' initiatives and not rest on self sufficiency. The S Hemp overall position is weak in terms of their harmony and again SA is key to that.

I fear that it is already too late, animosity exists between Union and 'Clubb' and World Rugby lethargy in resolving and promoting w/wide timetable was a big mistake.

The big backers are already in and the 'transfer market' is already hot. and the likes of EPCR are already in the van.

Media are drivers and they'll go with the easier route to the expansion of the game....curently below international level.

It's now a case of limitation


:( :thumbup:

_________________
"Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!”
“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:24 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 3327
Post Re: New season
I think not knowing where things are going is the key issue.

It can be a case of be careful what you wish for as latest fans surveys suggest footy premiership clubs feel have priced out the ordinary punter and more interested in building g a global brand than looking after local supporters. The premiership footy deal is very lucrative but clubs still go to the wall because of inflationary pressures and overspending

There is more than one model in footy as well with the Germans going heavily down down fan investment and in Spain they have this model where two clubs dominate the tv funds

So it needs to be better thought out in my opinion


Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:22 am
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 5970
Post Re: New season
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
I think not knowing where things are going is the key issue.

It can be a case of be careful what you wish for as latest fans surveys suggest footy premiership clubs feel have priced out the ordinary punter and more interested in building g a global brand than looking after local supporters. The premiership footy deal is very lucrative but clubs still go to the wall because of inflationary pressures and overspending

There is more than one model in footy as well with the Germans going heavily down down fan investment and in Spain they have this model where two clubs dominate the tv funds

So it needs to be better thought out in my opinion



The bleeding obvious that prices are too exorbitant has been evident for over two decades now. Dressing that simple truth up in pseudo intellectual crap changes nothing and advises no one.

This crass misunderstanding of the football model should not be allowed to infect Rugby's reality.


Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:14 am
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: New season
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
[

The bleeding obvious that prices are too exorbitant has been evident for over two decades now. Dressing that simple truth up in pseudo intellectual crap changes nothing and advises no one.

This crass misunderstanding of the football model should not be allowed to infect Rugby's reality.


Ok clever clogs, who is going to do it and what version thereof and how?

N Hemp Rugby is certainly looking like being on that path? or maybe you think not?

Wishful thinking is meaningless

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:30 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: