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New season 
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Post Re: New season
Figaro wrote:
Looking at the Welsh regions' recruitment, it's sad to say that the Dragons are the ones who most obviously look like they've improved, but that says more about the lack of recruitment on the others' parts. Henson and Kirchner (on paper at least) are definite improvements over their current calibre of player, and

The Ospreys are weaker than they were, no question. They have lost Underhill, Ardron and Matevesi, and recruited Hook and Allen. They were unlucky with injuries last year and getting back Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate and Dimitri Arhip will almost seem like new signings, but overall they flattered to deceive last season when it really mattered and I can't see them doing any better this time. They don't have the cadre of promising young players that the Scarlets and Blues boast.

The Scarlets will have done allright if they do pick up Halfpenny, but if not, they have lost Liam Williams and DTH Van der Merwe and replaced them with Tom Prydie and some complete unknowns and 7s players. Sure, one or two of the unknowns *might* turn out to be the next McNicholl (though I doubt it - he wasn't known here but was doing well in Super Rugby, which is far more than you can say for Asquith), and Prydie *might* come good again, but those are unlikely and are two of them really going to match the quality of Liam and DTH?

Now the blues have lost their SA lock down the back of the sofa their recruitment looks very light indeed. Roberts might be very good, or he might be no better than Cory Allen was; either way the Blues already have two excellent centers so even if Roberts is as good as Lee-lo it's only a marginal improvement on the squad compared to what recruiting a world class tighthead would have done. Let's hope Dillon Lewis can stay injury free because if he doesn't, there's nothing to suggest the Blues will do any better this season than the last.


Good points. In fact, ages ago I said that the Scarlets had a lot more promising youngsters than do the Ospreys, who by contrast are over-dependent on their increasingly ageing internationals, and got pilloried for it.


Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:15 pm
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Post Re: New season
I'm no ospreys supporter but they do have some decent young players like smith, Thornton, beard, cracknell, Davies, Howells and Giles

But they are having problems evolving into consistent top class professionals. Glimpses here and there but not the consistency

If they don't nail that then they could end up with Eli walker syndrome... lots of promise but it never quite happened


Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:33 am
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Post Re: New season
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
I'm no ospreys supporter but they do have some decent young players like smith, Thornton, beard, cracknell, Davies, Howells and Giles

But they are having problems evolving into consistent top class professionals. Glimpses here and there but not the consistency

If they don't nail that then they could end up with Eli walker syndrome... lots of promise but it never quite happened


Howells was actually capped by Wales back in 2013 on the Japan tour (two years before Eli Walker did), so I'd say he's very much a case of "Eli Walker syndrome" already. Smith is clearly integral to the Wales management's plans and can expect many more caps, though mostly off the bench unless Rob Evans is injured. Thornton, Giles and Beard are obviously in the picture as well, cf. their involvement over the summer. Cracknell made the 6N squad last year, though worth pointing out he isn't an Ospreys product: they signed him from RGC1404.

With the possible exception of Giles though, those players all have an issue in that they're standing in the queue behind established internationals: Thornton and Beard are behind Alun Wyn and Bradley Davies; Cracknell is behind Lydiate and King. The thing about the youngsters at the Scarlets and Blues is that they're getting the game time for the most part: Steff Evans and Ryal Elias both started the Pro12 final last year (as did Tadgh Beirne if you count him) whilst Will Boyde and Wyn Jones cam off the bench. It's pretty unlikely that Thornton and Beard would have started under the same circumstances and only one of them would have been on the bench (unless Lloyd Ashley was). Similarly at the Blues, the likes of Assirati, Tomos Williams and Rhun Williams have been getting plenty of games.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:47 am
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Post Re: New season
My hopes for the Scarlets are that they build on their end of last season form. I have no worries about recruitment especially with Halfpenny replacing Sanjay.

My hopes for the other Welsh regions is that each improves on last season. The Pivac effect at Llanelli shows what the right coach can bring to a team. Possibly the best thing each of the other three regions could do is headhunt the best coach possible and give each a run of three years.

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:56 pm
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Post Re: New season
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:22 pm
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Post Re: New season
Langland Exile wrote:
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?


David, I think that you're overplaying this one ... I have replied to a similar comment in another stream.

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:08 pm
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Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?


David, I think that you're overplaying this one ... I have replied to a similar comment in another stream.


Whatever...they could have not signed him, sat on their hands in denial like the Ospreys and Cardiff, but they sent the message they are reinvesting despite losses. Psychologically, that's very important..,to sponsors and others, when facing the reality of 6 or so players with contracts coming due at the end of this season.

Winners take risks..

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:38 pm
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Post Re: New season
Perhaps the Ospreys are saving up precisely to retain at least one out of Webb, Biggar and AWJ.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:08 pm
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Post Re: New season
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?


David, I think that you're overplaying this one ... I have replied to a similar comment in another stream.


Whatever...they could have not signed him, sat on their hands in denial like the Ospreys and Cardiff, but they sent the message they are reinvesting despite losses. Psychologically, that's very important..,to sponsors and others, when facing the reality of 6 or so players with contracts coming due at the end of this season.

Winners take risks..


......the degree of which may make them losers.

I truly hope they succeed but the balance of their positioning has to be sensibly described and not put out of context with a Pro12 win but a precarious business future.

that's all.

And don't forget the WR U prportional investment either ;)

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:18 pm
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Post Re: New season
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?


David, I think that you're overplaying this one ... I have replied to a similar comment in another stream.


Whatever...they could have not signed him, sat on their hands in denial like the Ospreys and Cardiff, but they sent the message they are reinvesting despite losses. Psychologically, that's very important..,to sponsors and others, when facing the reality of 6 or so players with contracts coming due at the end of this season.

Winners take risks..


......the degree of which may make them losers.

I truly hope they succeed but the balance of their positioning has to be sensibly described and not put out of context with a Pro12 win but a precarious business future.

that's all.

And don't forget the WR U prportional investment either ;)


See the response in the other thread. Entrepreneurs take risks, corporate guys collect cheques and blame somebody else when it goes wrong.

Time will tell. but at least they are giving it their best shot... have to work now...

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:26 pm
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Post Re: New season
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:43 am
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Post Re: New season
Scarletrover wrote:
You're both assuming that profit is the ultimate aim of the Financial Directors at the Regions (and of course clubs worldwide).
I would argue strongly that such is not the case in many instances and particularly so at the Scarlets, where I am reasonably well informed regarding the circumstances.
I agree that limiting losses as far as possible would be an aim, but attaining a profit is not necessarily the point of the excercise.


I'm not sure I understand.

Yes, I accept that many organisations don't look to make huge profits as such, but they either (in the case of some charities) look to reinvest that money and break even, or look to borrow to invest in the organisation for the future. There is no way that any large organisation can benefit from a mere loss limiting approach unless they want to end up going under very soon.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:06 am
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Post Re: New season
Death by a thousand cuts lasts a while but only ends in one way

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:12 pm
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Post Re: New season
najbritcol wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Looking at the Welsh regions' recruitment, it's sad to say that the Dragons are the ones who most obviously look like they've improved, but that says more about the lack of recruitment on the others' parts. Henson and Kirchner (on paper at least) are definite improvements over their current calibre of player, and

The Ospreys are weaker than they were, no question. They have lost Underhill, Ardron and Matevesi, and recruited Hook and Allen. They were unlucky with injuries last year and getting back Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate and Dimitri Arhip will almost seem like new signings, but overall they flattered to deceive last season when it really mattered and I can't see them doing any better this time. They don't have the cadre of promising young players that the Scarlets and Blues boast.

The Scarlets will have done allright if they do pick up Halfpenny, but if not, they have lost Liam Williams and DTH Van der Merwe and replaced them with Tom Prydie and some complete unknowns and 7s players. Sure, one or two of the unknowns *might* turn out to be the next McNicholl (though I doubt it - he wasn't known here but was doing well in Super Rugby, which is far more than you can say for Asquith), and Prydie *might* come good again, but those are unlikely and are two of them really going to match the quality of Liam and DTH?

Now the blues have lost their SA lock down the back of the sofa their recruitment looks very light indeed. Roberts might be very good, or he might be no better than Cory Allen was; either way the Blues already have two excellent centers so even if Roberts is as good as Lee-lo it's only a marginal improvement on the squad compared to what recruiting a world class tighthead would have done. Let's hope Dillon Lewis can stay injury free because if he doesn't, there's nothing to suggest the Blues will do any better this season than the last.


Good points. In fact, ages ago I said that the Scarlets had a lot more promising youngsters than do the Ospreys, who by contrast are over-dependent on their increasingly ageing internationals, and got pilloried for it.


and rightly so. your theory for those statements are limited in scope, inconsistent and not logical


Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:18 pm
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Post Re: New season
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Except for the Scarlets, the owners are not prepared to invest and put a better product on the field. Why should new fans be attracted to the regional game?


David, I think that you're overplaying this one ... I have replied to a similar comment in another stream.


Whatever...they could have not signed him, sat on their hands in denial like the Ospreys and Cardiff, but they sent the message they are reinvesting despite losses. Psychologically, that's very important..,to sponsors and others, when facing the reality of 6 or so players with contracts coming due at the end of this season.

Winners take risks..


......the degree of which may make them losers.

I truly hope they succeed but the balance of their positioning has to be sensibly described and not put out of context with a Pro12 win but a precarious business future.

that's all.

And don't forget the WR U prportional investment either ;)


See the response in the other thread. Entrepreneurs take risks, corporate guys collect cheques and blame somebody else when it goes wrong.

Time will tell. but at least they are giving it their best shot... have to work now...


Those that cant manage their business fail irrespective of type ;)

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ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:41 pm
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