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Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories 
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Post Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
It used to be a long-running joke that Ireland's provinces would do well but the national team wouldn't win any silverware, while the Wales team would win silverware even with decidedly mediocre regional teams. Aside from differences in funding, coaching etc. at either Test or provincial/regional level, here is my main theory for this dissonance:

While hardly reflected in the current World Rankings, I'd still argue that a Wales first-choice XV is more formidable than an Ireland first-choice XV, as has arguably been evidenced during most of the two teams' encounters since at least 2008. However, the Ireland second and third-string players are generally more formidable than their Welsh counterparts, hence the gap between the first XV and the rest is less dramatic. Therefore, this usually means that, on the one hand, Wales will win more silverware at international level (injuries permitting); on the other hand, there are more Irish players who, while not especially strong at Test level either, are nonetheless very good at provincial level and have helped their teams do well in both the Pro 12 and Europe. By contrast, however good Wales' first-choice players may be, beyond them in the different regional teams the players are not so wonderful.


Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
I still reckon that Wales would most likely defeat any team at the Millennium Stadium tomorrow apart from England and the SH big three.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:58 am
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Case in point, the two warmup games against Ireland before the 2015 WC. In the first, a 2nd-string Ireland thrashed a 2nd-string Wales at the Millenium (Hook, Hibbard and Phillips' last game for Wales; Dacey, Dan Baker's first). A week later, the Welsh first XV comfortably beat the Irish in Dublin.

But what explains the difference? Why are the best Welsh players better than the Irish but the average Irish player better than the Welsh?


Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:38 am
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Figaro wrote:
Case in point, the two warmup games against Ireland before the 2015 WC. In the first, a 2nd-string Ireland thrashed a 2nd-string Wales at the Millenium (Hook, Hibbard and Phillips' last game for Wales; Dacey, Dan Baker's first). A week later, the Welsh first XV comfortably beat the Irish in Dublin.

But what explains the difference? Why are the best Welsh players better than the Irish but the average Irish player better than the Welsh?


Don't encourage more threads please.. :D

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:19 am
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Langland Exile wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Case in point, the two warmup games against Ireland before the 2015 WC. In the first, a 2nd-string Ireland thrashed a 2nd-string Wales at the Millenium (Hook, Hibbard and Phillips' last game for Wales; Dacey, Dan Baker's first). A week later, the Welsh first XV comfortably beat the Irish in Dublin.

But what explains the difference? Why are the best Welsh players better than the Irish but the average Irish player better than the Welsh?


Don't encourage more threads please.. :D


It's a perfectly interesting and legitimate question that could go some way to sorting out both teams' deficiencies.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
I think the Irish are dead good they've got dead good provinces that are loads betterer that what our regions are and their national side are dead good because they beat New Zealand and we never.

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:37 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Imo, the Irish have a better National Coach than Wales and he opted out of Lions tour, who knows we could have been more successful?

Ireland beat the ABs by themselves ;)

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Tony Panties wrote:
Imo, the Irish have a better National Coach than Wales and he opted out of Lions tour, who knows we could have been more successful?

Ireland beat the ABs by themselves ;)


I agree wholeheartedly ;)

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
I have to say najbritcol, your theories are shit.

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
I would prefer to look beyond Ireland and look at why Wales are continually beaten by the SH


Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:34 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Thegrimriper wrote:
I have to say najbritcol, your theories are shit.

Thats right sugar coat it why dont you :!:


Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
najbritcol wrote:
It used to be a long-running joke that Ireland's provinces would do well but the national team wouldn't win any silverware, while the Wales team would win silverware even with decidedly mediocre regional teams. Aside from differences in funding, coaching etc. at either Test or provincial/regional level, here is my main theory for this dissonance:

While hardly reflected in the current World Rankings, I'd still argue that a Wales first-choice XV is more formidable than an Ireland first-choice XV, as has arguably been evidenced during most of the two teams' encounters since at least 2008. However, the Ireland second and third-string players are generally more formidable than their Welsh counterparts, hence the gap between the first XV and the rest is less dramatic. Therefore, this usually means that, on the one hand, Wales will win more silverware at international level (injuries permitting); on the other hand, there are more Irish players who, while not especially strong at Test level either, are nonetheless very good at provincial level and have helped their teams do well in both the Pro 12 and Europe. By contrast, however good Wales' first-choice players may be, beyond them in the different regional teams the players are not so wonderful.


Ireland could be down a centre and a FH soon

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40719803


Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
I used to ponder the many nutcases who would bleat that The Irish didn't take the Celtic League or The Pro 12 seriously ... yet they are always very good and also at International Level.

If we could be half as poor as The Irish we'd be quids in.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
Tony Panties wrote:
Imo, the Irish have a better National Coach than Wales and he opted out of Lions tour, who knows we could have been more successful?

Ireland beat the ABs by themselves ;)


And Japan and Italy both beat South Africa. Upsets happen. My point is that, if the Irish team at Test level were much better than the Welsh, how come the Welsh have won the majority of matches between each other over the last decade? (The Welsh also have had better winning records against the other 6N competitors bar England than the Irish have had in this period).

Seriously, if we were to devise a combined Irish/Welsh XV, I'd say it'd be at least 50/50, if not 60/40 in favour of the Welsh.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:33 pm
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Post Re: Wales achievements vs Ireland achievements - my theories
najbritcol wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Imo, the Irish have a better National Coach than Wales and he opted out of Lions tour, who knows we could have been more successful?

Ireland beat the ABs by themselves ;)


And Japan and Italy both beat South Africa. Upsets happen. My point is that, if the Irish team at Test level were much better than the Welsh, how come the Welsh have won the majority of matches between each other over the last decade? (The Welsh also have had better winning records against the other 6N competitors bar England than the Irish have had in this period).

Seriously, if we were to devise a combined Irish/Welsh XV, I'd say it'd be at least 50/50, if not 60/40 in favour of the Welsh.


Naj,

Go to the fruiterer and ask for an apple and a pear and compare them.

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Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:07 am
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