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Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011 
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Post Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Just looking at their squad from 2010 and wondering how on earth they didn't do better in the European competitions!

Surely a squad this deep should have been challenging and winning European competitions

Here's the squad for the 2010/11 HC- http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/27060

I tried to find the squad list from 2008-2010 but couldn't. I seem to remember that the squad with Marshal and Henson was even better? :dontknow:


Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:55 am
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
2008 was the year they supplied 13/15 of the starting Welsh team.

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:26 am
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:48 am
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:48 am
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
najbritcol wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


Even by your standards, that's way of the mark. :D

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:47 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?

Nugget and Mark Jones. Gethin came on at half time for Duncan, if I remember rightly.

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Wales: Byrne; M. Jones, Parker, Henson, S. Williams; Hook, Phillips; A. Jones, Bennett, D. Jones, A W Jones, Gough, J. Thomas, M. Williams, R. Jones (capt).
Replacements: Popham for J. Thomas (13),Shanklin for Parker (46), Jenkins for A. Jones (46), Rees for Bennett (58), Evans for A. Jones (78), .
Not Used: Cooper, S. Jones.

Source BBC

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:04 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
najbritcol wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


clueless.

the funding and owership structure managed to put this team on the field in the 2008 edf final so can't be blamed for the under performing. when they needed a scrum half at the last minute, they signed world cup winning januarie.

Ospreys: Byrne, Vaughton, Parker, A. Bishop, S. Williams, Hook, Marshall, James, Hibbard, A. Jones, Wyn-Jones, Evans, R. Jones, Holah, Tiatia.
Replacements: Brew Spratt , Owen , D. Jones , Bennett , Gough , J. Thomas.

and this team in 2007
Ospreys: Byrne, S. Williams, Parker, A. Bishop, Walker, Hook, Marshall, D. Jones, Bennett, A. Jones, Cockbain, A. Jones, R. Jones, Thomas, Tiatia.
Replacements: Terblanche, Connor , Spice , B. Williams , James , Powell , Pugh .

HC team 2009
Ospreys: B. Davies, Walker, Bowe, Hook, Williams, Biggar, Phillips, D. Jones, Bennett, Griffiths, A. Jones, Thomas, Collins, Holah, R. Jones, .
Replacements: Nutbrown for Phillips (33), James for D. Jones (55), Hibbard for Bennett (36), Mitchell for Griffiths (55), Gough for Thomas (57), Tiatia for Holah (59), Bishop for Nutbrown (73).
Not Used: Parker.

this teamlost in the 1/4s of the HC inn 2010
Ospreys: Byrne, Bowe, Bishop, Hook, Williams, Biggar, M. Phillips, James, Bennett, A. Jones, A. Jones, J. Thomas, Collins, Holah, R. Jones.
Replacements: Walker, Shervington , Gough , Tiatia for Holah, Bevington, Mitchell, Nutbrown, Parker.

2011 team
Ospreys: Byrne, Bowe, Bishop, Hook, Williams, Biggar, M. Phillips, James, Hibbard, A. Jones, Gough, A. Jones, Collins, Holah, Thomas.
Replacements: N. Walker for Williams (68). Not Used: Bennett, Bevington, Mitchell, R. Jones, Tipuric, Nutbrown, Owen.


Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:12 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
mr messy wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


clueless.

the funding and owership structure managed to put this team on the field in the 2008 edf final so can't be blamed for the under performing. when they needed a scrum half at the last minute, they signed world cup winning januarie.

Ospreys: Byrne, Vaughton, Parker, A. Bishop, S. Williams, Hook, Marshall, James, Hibbard, A. Jones, Wyn-Jones, Evans, R. Jones, Holah, Tiatia.
Replacements: Brew Spratt , Owen , D. Jones , Bennett , Gough , J. Thomas.

and this team in 2007
Ospreys: Byrne, S. Williams, Parker, A. Bishop, Walker, Hook, Marshall, D. Jones, Bennett, A. Jones, Cockbain, A. Jones, R. Jones, Thomas, Tiatia.
Replacements: Terblanche, Connor , Spice , B. Williams , James , Powell , Pugh .

HC team 2009
Ospreys: B. Davies, Walker, Bowe, Hook, Williams, Biggar, Phillips, D. Jones, Bennett, Griffiths, A. Jones, Thomas, Collins, Holah, R. Jones, .
Replacements: Nutbrown for Phillips (33), James for D. Jones (55), Hibbard for Bennett (36), Mitchell for Griffiths (55), Gough for Thomas (57), Tiatia for Holah (59), Bishop for Nutbrown (73).
Not Used: Parker.

this teamlost in the 1/4s of the HC inn 2010
Ospreys: Byrne, Bowe, Bishop, Hook, Williams, Biggar, M. Phillips, James, Bennett, A. Jones, A. Jones, J. Thomas, Collins, Holah, R. Jones.
Replacements: Walker, Shervington , Gough , Tiatia for Holah, Bevington, Mitchell, Nutbrown, Parker.

2011 team
Ospreys: Byrne, Bowe, Bishop, Hook, Williams, Biggar, M. Phillips, James, Hibbard, A. Jones, Gough, A. Jones, Collins, Holah, Thomas.
Replacements: N. Walker for Williams (68). Not Used: Bennett, Bevington, Mitchell, R. Jones, Tipuric, Nutbrown, Owen.


Quite so, any suggestion otherwise is really inane

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Langland Exile wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


Even by your standards, that's way of the mark. :D


The benefactor system is unsustainable full stop, even when it seemed to work better back then. Quite simply, the Welsh regions should be under direct ownership of the WRU along similar lines to Ireland and NZ.


Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:15 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
najbritcol wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Prys#1 wrote:
Yep remember that game

Gethin and Nugget the only two none O's players iirc?

But around that few years they also had very good over seas players too. Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Bowe, Walker, Marshall (although he was perhaps past his best)

I remember watching them in 08 against the sarries at the Milstad in some cup (think it was the LV?) and they wiped the floor with them. They then played them again a couple of weeks later away in the HC and were awful with Sarries winning the game

This is not a region bashing thread, but I'm curious as to what people think was the reason that such a deep and talented squad didn't perhaps fulfill their potential?


A quick glance at the coaching staff during that period might give you some answers.


As well as the funding and ownership structure.


Even by your standards, that's way of the mark. :D


The benefactor system is unsustainable full stop, even when it seemed to work better back then. Quite simply, the Welsh regions should be under direct ownership of the WRU along similar lines to Ireland and NZ.


That's not the point under discussion, however.

The question, which is a fair one, is why did the core of the Welsh team which won Grand Slams under Gatland, fail so miserably in European competition? It's got nothing to do with ownership or player salaries.

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Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Of course it was Mark Jones, cheers Spin

Totally forgot about Januarie and Terblanche too! :shock:

The squad the O's had they should have been achiving way more in Europe

Big powerful forwards, good half backs and a very good back line. They had very good players to use off the bench too...

Maybe it had a little to do with the coaching structure, although I can't remember who the coaches were around that time? (Lyn Jones? And for some reason I'm thinking Scott Johnson!? :shock: )


Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
y'up. scott johnston was involved for bit and director of rugby over seeing holley and humphries before they took charge themself.

it think it was the culture. they had th eplayers that could coast to wins, but when it came down to the big games, they always fell short because the training and mentality wasn't right.

and it's not going to change either as there is nothing there to change it. every new person who comes in has th esame back ground. millward is managing director, gruff jones, kevin morgan, andy newman, andy lloyd, richard fussell, tom smith, duncan jones, andrew bishop are all heavily involved in the coaching & development set up. they all only really know one type of environment.

Steve tandy was playing with a number of the players who are now key to his team. is his way to change anything radically or does he just try and improve on the the only thing he's experienced?


Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Ospreys underachievement 2008-2011
Thought I remembered Johnson involved somewhere

Yeah, think it could well have been that. As you said they just fell short when the pressure was on, losses by less than a score in a couple of HC QF's iirc? Such a shame because I look at what sarries are doing now and it just feels a little of 'what could have been' for the O's?

Millward, was he the tight head from around 2005ish?


Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:54 pm
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