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Warburton Steps down 
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Sam and indeed AWJ are not the players they were at the last RWC, both below par at international level IMO.

I'd give the captaincy to Scott Williams.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Fids the Blindside wrote:
Sam and indeed AWJ are not the players they were at the last RWC, both below par at international level IMO.

I'd give the captaincy to Scott Williams.


The scary thing is the gap between AWJ and other Welsh locks.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Langland Exile wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
Sam and indeed AWJ are not the players they were at the last RWC, both below par at international level IMO.

I'd give the captaincy to Scott Williams.


The scary thing is the gap between AWJ and other Welsh locks.


Indeed.
And whilst I agree he may have lost some gas compared to a few years ago, his attitude, commitment and understanding of the game make him a talisman for both Wales and the Ospreys, and so for me the natural choice to take over as Welsh captain.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:50 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public, that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life



Most people work in a professional environment, i dont know why anyone would think that people who play for Wales would not need to be managed while on the field. Doctors are managed by consultants. Trained professional killers are managed in the army by their superiors. Everyone looks to someone to make decisions when the chips are down. It is the way of things, rugby players are just as full crap as everyone else, i cant see what you base it on. I dont think its any more or less important to the team than the captain in Division 3 West. Egos need to be kept in check and people need guidance.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Personally it underlines the fact that he should never have captained the Lions and has never been a natural captain. AWJ has been the unofficial captain and the heart beat of the team.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public,??? that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life


????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway
McBryde was 'special' led from the front and the dressing room ;)

Dawes the quiet 'Coaches voice on the field'? ;)

Johnson 'they shall not pass' ... ;)

Most successful teams bring something special in their Capt?

On McBryde I will never forget the conversatween Ray Gravell and Tony O'Reillly that nearly took Grandstand off the air ...The usual repartee ... and O'Reilly was reminiscing on a match Wales Ireland in Cardiff ... they were getting well beaten but came back and it was a frantic finish as O'Reilly said ....McBryde in the van as they made attempts to win "cmon lads kick ahead any *fupping* head!!" ...Ahem :D

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
was it his decision to make?


Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Fair play, did good service to Wales from young age, but think AWJ is good choice. Looking forward to 6 Nations now, especially with number of injuries England are racking up! :occasion5:


Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Blindside wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public, that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life



Most people work in a professional environment, i dont know why anyone would think that people who play for Wales would not need to be managed while on the field. Doctors are managed by consultants. Trained professional killers are managed in the army by their superiors. Everyone looks to someone to make decisions when the chips are down. It is the way of things, rugby players are just as full crap as everyone else, i cant see what you base it on. I dont think its any more or less important to the team than the captain in Division 3 West. Egos need to be kept in check and people need guidance.


I'm not sure I agree with this... these guys are supposed to be elite level players. Why should they need guidance. Yes a captain is important but in my opinion we should promote leadership across the board

Obsession with captaincy is very much a British construct and relic of the officer class. Your example even used the military. As an example in other sports I.e. Italian football they just simply add up the caps and give the captaincy to generally who has the most. 4 world cups ain't bad

Anyway I may alone in this view but don't follow the cult of the individual


Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Tony Panties wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public,??? that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life


????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway
McBryde was 'special' led from the front and the dressing room ;)

Dawes the quiet 'Coaches voice on the field'? ;)

Johnson 'they shall not pass' ... ;)

Most successful teams bring something special in their Capt?

On McBryde I will never forget the conversatween Ray Gravell and Tony O'Reillly that nearly took Grandstand off the air ...The usual repartee ... and O'Reilly was reminiscing on a match Wales Ireland in Cardiff ... they were getting well beaten but came back and it was a frantic finish as O'Reilly said ....McBryde in the van as they made attempts to win "cmon lads kick ahead any *fupping* head!!" ...Ahem :D


To clarify the bit you highlighted in red and left a question mark...

I was querying whether the general publics view of who should be the captain would be compatible with a pro (elite?) rugby player.


Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Tony Panties wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public,??? that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life


????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway
McBryde was 'special' led from the front and the dressing room ;)

Dawes the quiet 'Coaches voice on the field'? ;)

Johnson 'they shall not pass' ... ;)

Most successful teams bring something special in their Capt?

On McBryde I will never forget the conversatween Ray Gravell and Tony O'Reillly that nearly took Grandstand off the air ...The usual repartee ... and O'Reilly was reminiscing on a match Wales Ireland in Cardiff ... they were getting well beaten but came back and it was a frantic finish as O'Reilly said ....McBryde in the van as they made attempts to win "cmon lads kick ahead any *fupping* head!!" ...Ahem :D


Modern day players at this level are a breed apart from the general public, Terry, they have reached the pinnacle of their profession, it's not a game any longer?

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:35 am
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Blindside wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public, that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life



Most people work in a professional environment, i dont know why anyone would think that people who play for Wales would not need to be managed while on the field. Doctors are managed by consultants. Trained professional killers are managed in the army by their superiors. Everyone looks to someone to make decisions when the chips are down. It is the way of things, rugby players are just as full crap as everyone else, i cant see what you base it on. I dont think its any more or less important to the team than the captain in Division 3 West. Egos need to be kept in check and people need guidance.


I'm not sure I agree with this... these guys are supposed to be elite level players. Why should they need guidance. Yes a captain is important but in my opinion we should promote leadership across the board

Obsession with captaincy is very much a British construct and relic of the officer class. Your example even used the military. As an example in other sports I.e. Italian football they just simply add up the caps and give the captaincy to generally who has the most. 4 world cups ain't bad

Anyway I may alone in this view but don't follow the cult of the individual


With due respect, I think it's more of a leadership issue than a rank or status issue. I am working at an age I didn't think I would need to, but a top class CEO with great motivational skills can even get me enthusiastic.

They are few and far between, that's the issue.. ;)

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:40 am
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
I would hazard a guess that being captain means you are contractually obliged to deal with the media. In this day and age that probably has quite a bearing on the choice.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:13 am
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Blindside wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public, that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life



Most people work in a professional environment, i dont know why anyone would think that people who play for Wales would not need to be managed while on the field. Doctors are managed by consultants. Trained professional killers are managed in the army by their superiors. Everyone looks to someone to make decisions when the chips are down. It is the way of things, rugby players are just as full crap as everyone else, i cant see what you base it on. I dont think its any more or less important to the team than the captain in Division 3 West. Egos need to be kept in check and people need guidance.


I'm not sure I agree with this... these guys are supposed to be elite level players. Why should they need guidance. Yes a captain is important but in my opinion we should promote leadership across the board

Obsession with captaincy is very much a British construct and relic of the officer class. Your example even used the military. As an example in other sports I.e. Italian football they just simply add up the caps and give the captaincy to generally who has the most. 4 world cups ain't bad

Anyway I may alone in this view but don't follow the cult of the individual


The captains role has a number of considerations.

Firstly there has to be a player who.makes the decisions. Whether to kick or not for goal for example.

There are also a number of ways of dealing with a situation, that isn't to say any single approach is right. But only one approach can be chosen and every player needs to work in the same direction.

Even amongst elite players not all of them are natural leaders or don't necessarily have the maturity within the game to know how to respond or force a particular scenario.

Also, only one player is allowed to talk to the ref. Having a player who is good at this helps.


Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Warburton Steps down
Cymru am byth wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Blindside wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
AWJ for me

However I do wonder whether in a professional environment where players are much more competent than the general public, that a vocal and hands on captain is tantamount to the micro manager, or the bloke who emails everyone telling them what a great job their doing, in other walks of life



Most people work in a professional environment, i dont know why anyone would think that people who play for Wales would not need to be managed while on the field. Doctors are managed by consultants. Trained professional killers are managed in the army by their superiors. Everyone looks to someone to make decisions when the chips are down. It is the way of things, rugby players are just as full crap as everyone else, i cant see what you base it on. I dont think its any more or less important to the team than the captain in Division 3 West. Egos need to be kept in check and people need guidance.


I'm not sure I agree with this... these guys are supposed to be elite level players. Why should they need guidance. Yes a captain is important but in my opinion we should promote leadership across the board

Obsession with captaincy is very much a British construct and relic of the officer class. Your example even used the military. As an example in other sports I.e. Italian football they just simply add up the caps and give the captaincy to generally who has the most. 4 world cups ain't bad

Anyway I may alone in this view but don't follow the cult of the individual


The captains role has a number of considerations.

Firstly there has to be a player who.makes the decisions. Whether to kick or not for goal for example.

There are also a number of ways of dealing with a situation, that isn't to say any single approach is right. But only one approach can be chosen and every player needs to work in the same direction.

Even amongst elite players not all of them are natural leaders or don't necessarily have the maturity within the game to know how to respond or force a particular scenario.

Also, only one player is allowed to talk to the ref. Having a player who is good at this helps.


Point taken... but in recent years the Wales pack has been able to pick 2 lions captains, 3 if you count lydiate, and a bloke in Jenkins who has captained the side ahead of those just mentioned. So plenty of captains and we still can't beat the Southern Hemisphere

Switching to a different captain will have limited impact on the result if players from 1-15 do not pull their finger out


Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:01 am
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